A recent study of incapacitation data by the FBI Training Division states: “Shots to the central nervous system [CNS] at the level of the cervical spine [neck] or above are the only means to reliably cause immediate incapacitation. Other than shots to the CNS, the most reliable means for affecting rapid incapacitation is by placing shots to large vital organs, thus causing rapid blood loss.”. No handgun ammunition for practical defense applications is capable of producing hydrostatic shock, which disrupts tissue far beyond the wound channel. You must know if it can handle +P ammo before you use +P ammo in it. +P is most often used for self-defense purposes. Most infantry soldiers aren’t in that role but for a handful of years. It will accelerate wear slightly though. Disclosure: Some of these links are affiliate links. None of this ammunition provided bullet expansion. In the past few years, many gun owners took the availability of cheap, effective, and reliable 9mm Luger ammo for granted. Well, I can’t say what the cartridge will do to your gun, but as with anything in life there are always risks and a wise man would heed the advice of those closest to it (i.e. The longer case precluded their use in older guns that couldn’t handle the higher pressures. (Assuming your gun can handle +P ammo; more on gun specs below.) Whether by design or coincidence, the .38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old .38-44 rounds but also wouldn’t damage their expensive handguns.  Today, the argument can be made that the .38 Special +P is the definitive .38 round.  But back to the original question: what about using .38 Special +Ps in guns “not rated” for it? My HK USP-SD has a "tactical" recoil spring designed to handle additional pressure from shooting suppressed. and get the scoop on whether your gun can take the round straight from horses mouth.  Chances are you’ll sleep easier. • 115 grain factory ammo • 147 gr PMC is ok to use. His interests in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting. I want the gun to run as it was built to and that isn't with +P ammo. But in reality, the concept of a pistol caliber that can reliably stop a bad guy with one shot is not possible under normal conditions. As a result, ammunition for defense should be capable of penetrating sufficiently to access vital organs and generate massive blood loss. Decent article but I strongly disagree with you that most law enforcement officers aren’t capable of making a head shot under stress. In modern calibers like .357 SIG or .38 Super, all firearms available are of sufficiently recent manufacture to assure they can handle the pressures of modern defensive ammunition. This is perhaps true with civilians but not with law enforcement. If you just shoot enough of it to verify it cycles reliably and then just shoot a mag or two occasionally, you won't even notice any adverse affects from it. Autos of any kind can mess up and usually at the wrong time. Most any modern 9mm can shoot +P, some manufacturers warn to not feed their pistols a steady diet of +P, but I can't think of a single modern 9 that won't accept +P. Pretty much any new.45 will be +p rated. There has been an error with your Email Subscription. JSP will work in anything as long as it's the correct loading for the gun. 127 thoughts on “ Why I won’t use or test .380 ACP “+P” or any “+P+” ammo… rw walden March 10, 2014 at 8:28 pm. In all of those years lies a lot of range time, both on and off-duty. Be sure to check the stamp on the bottom of the casing to identify ammo marked as +P. (Photo: Chris Eger/Guns.com) If you’re not sure, contact the manufacturer of the firearm and ask them. This article also appeared in the January 1, 2015 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. Velocity increase is modest, however. If for some reason you cannot do that, contact a reputable gunsmith. ALL .38 Super ammo is considered +p) There are NO standards what what constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc. All About Plus P Ammo and Using It. Per my armorer, both pistols will run this Euro-spec ammo for 5,000 rounds before a refit is recommended. Before I had either, I assumed every type of gun … I can tell you that I would not want to tempt fate too much with the older aluminum frame guns like the Smith & Wesson Model 37 Airweight or the Colt Agent. Decent comment but I strongly disagree with you that most officers are out there comfortably trying to go for the 1 tap.. Go watch 10 thousand police shooting videos.. You wiil find a few where high level swat officers going for headshot first but aside from the million reasons that headshots are not as viable someone like you who sounds like they know a decent amount should understand why headshots are not the first choice in more then 90 percent of police situations.. Now that’s just the normal reason they don’t but even police officers who train everyday do not encounter nearly enough situations where they discharge there weapon when they are faced with death to be comfortable going for the headshot first.. Its like mike tyson always said… Everyone always has a plan until they get punched in the face… Now there are plenty out there who have the ability to make the shot but to say that most cops could pull off a headshot while being shot at from even 15 yards is bullshit… Now im not gonna go into all the other reasons even though there are many.. Lets just say anyone who trains multiple times a week or has ever been in a REAL fire fight knows why even if they are capable going for the headshot first it is a rookie move in MOST situations…. Identifying +P Ammo Modern ammo cartridges can look very similar. This new load is designed ONLY for certain firearms. 0 The BB.45 Colt ammo should only be shot in Ruger, Colt Anaconda, and Freedom Arms pistols. Arguably, the first +P round was .38 Super. The modern guns chambered for the .45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for .44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. When it comes to ammunition for defense purposes, one of the most constant recommendations is to use +P ammo.There is some discussion about whether plus P ammo is necessary or advisable to use in some firearms, which may give some people pause about whether use is prudent. I would take a professional police officer to a gun battle over a competition or target shooter any day as they can work under the stress of a gunfight. The real problem though that I see is that with so many revolvers and pocket pistols out there chambered in .38 special, the market has become far too large for shooters to keep track of.  Many are just plain confused as to the construction of the gun versus the power of the round and accordingly, stick with the standard velocity stuff because they are worried their gun will suddenly turn into a hand grenade if they load the more powerful +P rounds. hand cannons are not needed for SD, nor are RPGs. No problems with the Canadian made Hi-Powers. I carry the 9PBLE and practice with White Box. If you use +P ammo, you do so at your own risk. For decades the most common bullet that you could find in the .38 Special was the old 158-grain lead round nose, which proved lackluster in the ways of personal defense. Plus-P ammunition can raise the performance bar for your handgun, but a tradeoff is more recoil and muzzle blast. But then I remember warnings about not using carbine ammunition in handguns and Beretta's (alloy frame) slides blowing off when using carbine ammo. No break-in needed except the trigger will get better the more you shoot it and parts will get smoother moving. Lawmen found in the early days that the old 158 grain lead bullet failed to penetrate just about anything with authority so out came the .38-44 which took the .38 Special to new heights (and speeds clocking in around 1,100 fps—quite the feat for the 1930s). Police officers are trained very well, And I would further argue that they may be trained better than most military, excluding special forces of course. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. In some cases it is worth it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion. The more energy, the better the chance the projectile will penetrate and/or expand. This is a significant, but not dramatic, improvement. While simply changing the name of the round worked, the ammunition manufacturers needed a designation to indicate ammunition made for modern firearms engineered to handle higher pressure, hence the development of +P and +P+ ammunition. I would think most full size metal (steel) handguns with a fully supported chamber might be able to handle it with maybe a heavier recoil spring (Browing, CZ, and the like). I've followed, essentially, the same course ever since. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition. • +P is ok Remington Thunderbolt. It will take a lot of rds. Mine have … Please try again. The problem was that if this round ended up in anything other than the big N-frame Smith & Wesson revolver the vibrations would end up knocking the rounds off kilter (sometimes called knocking them “loose”), resulting in malfunctions. I am one of the unfortunate officers who had to use lethal force while on duty so I know this first hand. When discussing defensive handguns, a lot is said about calibers that are one-shot stoppers. You can shoot +P in any XD or XDm pistol. Is it really as hot as advertised and how does it compare to the .38 Special of old? A majority of law enforcement officers these days are trained under stress, as much stress that could be produced at a sterile range environment. Assuming the bullets are the same, +P ammunition appears identical to a “normal” cartridge on the outside and will load into any similarly chambered firearm. Whether by design or coincidence, the.38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old.38-44 rounds … The offering is another quality product from CCI, who already create some of the best .22 LR ammo around. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. The stress involves moving, moving targets, exiting patrol cars, siren, low light, sound and other sight distraction and sim rounds being shot their way. Usually, the cheapest rounds…but some guns don’t like them. While a single shot to the brain has instant stopping capability, shots to the head in defensive situations are rarely the best choice. American made 9mm Luger didn't always function these guns. How a 80's Colt King Cobra Changed My Mind on Revolvers. Gun Review: Going the Distance with the Kimber Rapide Black Ice 10mm. I … I'd say any gun made after 1970 is a pretty safe bet. 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